Not even just the article, but many of the arguments made in the comments against Joomla! are weak and purely based on a bad personal experience AND/OR show existing bias to another system.

It’s a free world people, choose what you like.

I’m not a wordpress guy, but i recognise it’s value

That’s designers trend not CMS functionality. Some sites are recognized as “joomla sites” because designers don’t know where and how to change layouts inside modules or components. They usually change just the settings and don’t go deep into the code (which means people should learn its MVC) where all the critical files are (templates and css) and need to be change so it doesn’t look like “default” or “joomla like”.

For instance, lets say you want to change how the search module looks like. All it takes is copying the folder mod_search inside “modules” to your template folder under “html/mod_search”. All files needed to be changed are there so you can arrange all html elements the way you want without messing with core files. But of course, you need to learn some MVC or read some tutorials teaching about the same exact thing. Even if you need to change layouts in components, just go inside components folder and change the files you want inside the component you want.

But hell, learning the MVC, php or related is tiresome for some. Well, they should blame themselves then. It’s 2011 and someone calling itself a webdesigner should have some codding skills. They hate joomla because if it gets mostly used it means they will need to change habits and learn.

but there is no default look for CMS like Silverstripe or MODx CMS for example. They’ve put the template engine on a different level than the other ( and of course they are more recent ).

I didn’t say that Joomla was not a good framework. Just that the template engine is not on par with other tools

@Unleash.it

“Just don’t trash something else unless you know what you’re talking about”

I don’t trash anything here.
FIY i’ve made a few websites with Joomla.
And I’ve said many time that Joomla as other points where it shines, but the template engine’s not.

Does it mean that Joomla sucks, i don’t think so.

that is really no argument.
Joomla itself is more of a framework.
Also there are some extra frameworks for Joomla that are adding great features for devs and designers like gantry:
http://www.gantry-framework.org/

“in Joomla there is a GUI”…

You’re obviously not a designer.
The fact that there is a GUI confirm that there are blackboxes in Joomla.

@Marco G.

“Pure utter nonsense. That’s not even an argument.”

I just type Joomla look in Google and the website http://www.joomlart.com/ comes up with this link : Avoiding the joomla look
And a nice catch phrase : Many templates out there can instantly be recognised as joomla.

Putting that aside, most af the joomla look-alike website are not done by design senstive people. Exactly like a WP site with no good designer behind it: it will look like a WP blog.

————————–

All joomla commenters whine because “you didn’t even try to understand how it works”.
That’s the main point!!

I can achieve pretty good design with Joomla, but I’ve to work the joomla way.

There are other CMS with no such limitations.

Is it really surprising ?

The other reason is just as Marco puts it below (nicely put). Web designers want it push button simple. And when the crowd see a “Joomla is evil” post, well lets just say that makes it pretty easy to jump on the complaint bandwagon, even if they knew they didn’t dig very deeply! That’s why this article hurts a little. But honestly with all the demand for websites that do more, I don’t think the demand for their services will last much longer unless they decide to improve their skills… which will mean leaving their comfort zone. You do have to learn Joomla, including which extensions to use, not to use, etc. I think the templating system is good. Much better than WP or Drupal IMO. In WP, you have to hand code functions all of the time where in Joomla there is a GUI. Once you learn it in Joomla it’s very quick. Believe me, it’s not limiting. There isn’t a thing I don’t like to tweak.

Not every tool is right for everyone as I (and so many others) keep saying. But if you have doubts about speed of design/development w/Joomla, google CMS Showdown and click the “competition” tab. Scroll down and compare time spent, and lines of custom code (link omitted because that’s my only other guess as to why my comment didn’t post). Notice that WP takes the most time and requires the most custom code by a wide margin. That’s because WP doesn’t have the core (or even extensions) to handle more then very simple sites/blogs. Of course you can do anything with it, but hopefully you have plenty of time on your hands.

In my almost 15 years of design/web experience, I’ve been through a lot lol. I’m certainly not closed minded. I’ve already said that as it is, the Joomla core leaves a bit to be desired. But when you weigh in the 3rd party community, which anyone really should do, it is quite a good system. It certainly deserves much more than the evil moniker… That’s all boys and girls!

You assume too much.

First, i am not a designer but a programmer.
Second, i have worked with Joomla several times and with other tools as well. Not sure that you’ve done the same.

What i note is that you only note the design comment on Joomla because he’s not the best kid in the place. I ‘ve not mentinned the php code behind it or all the cool 3rd party plugins that bring power to Joomla because that’s where it shines.

Maybe that one day you’ll have the occasion to try the other CMS which have their forte too, and notice that some of them are really better on the design side.
They’re younger for sure, but their templating systems are better whether you like it or not.

Joomla work within blackboxes (Drupal do too) that you can override.
I know several CMS that don’t impose any limitation whatsoever. You don’t have to know the tool to design for it.
Even WordPress has a few blackboxes too and has definitively not the best templating system, and is a limited tool CMS/PHP wise.

@Marco G.

If design was a question of college degree, everybody would have known now.
For designers, real talented designers, it’s about attitude, skills and using the right tool for the right job.
For programmers too…

I don’t understand why joomla supporters get so offended about a tool.
And then come to explain that they have successful buisiness and a few college degrees, experiences, etc…

We, the “others”, are not stupid, we know that Joomla is not that bad. And we’re not impressed by your life experiences and success here, in this context.
Not because you’re retarded or whatever, but because it’s not the point!

I feel your questioning Kevin.

Pure utter nonsense. That’s not even an argument.

You lack the knowledge and then blame the system ? Come on …

Templates (design layout) are completely independent from content and programmability on all CMS. All it takes is understanding and learning its structure. I can replicate the same exact design for joomla or any other CMS. So there goes your reasoning …

It’s not about calling joomla, or any CMS for the mater, as being good or bad, the best or the worst. Calling it such is pure rhetorics and explains nothing, just a bunch of synthetic judgments without real analysis. Proper understanding, experience and the right attitude are the way to give you the exact answers and achieve control.